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legal
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 510
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 Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:35 pm Post subject: Thinking of starting an Internet gaming site? |
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I'm thinking of starting up an Internet gambling site. Where to begin?
A very good question and one we get so frequently, the boss has asked us to prepare a reply. We're working on the A answer, which we'll post here as it grows and changes. Until then, here is the C- response with a few links and cautions that merit careful consideration.
We assume that there is plenty of competition out there among lawyers for this type of business (see our Google search results of the terms, 'Internet gambling law firms', below), but we've been very impressed from the start with materials we've seen by a UK firm, Berwin, Leighton, Paisner. They appear to be welcoming such inquiries and provide a number of articles on the subject, which gives us some comfort in terms of their appreciation of international repercussions -- though we'd be happier if we saw more about the potential impact of U.S. law, which could be huge, especially if you attract gamblers from the state of California.
| Quote: | | Note: See our U.S. gaming law forum for a cursory look at a few ongoing e-gaming court challenges and When can Uncle Sam come knocking?, Part II of our Pasquantino summary, especially The Economist excerpt on wire fraud and Alien Tort Claims Act from the June 11/05 issue. |
We will say, too, that you are well advised to pay the money for counsel before proceeding. It puts someone else on the risk of ensuring that you take appropriate measures to operate within the law. It's excellent service, really, and damn hard work. If you need some names closer to home, please let us know.
We hope to expand this reply once we have completed a brief look at Kahnawake, Quebec, which we read currently as a danger zone in terms of hosting offshore casinos. So far, police investigations there have not yielded any charges, but the possibility is certainly there, and with that possibility comes disgorgement of what might be considered the proceeds of crime.
On the other hand, we note with interest the new bill in North Dakota to legalize and regulate online poker. Search the terms, 'North Dakota,' anywhere at our site and you'll find some links to help explain it. Does it mean the U.S. might legalize online gambling after all? Maybe. We're watching North Dakota to see what happens.
| Quote: | | Note: The North Dakota bill was, in fact, defeated. Scroll way down here for details and links. Perhaps of greater interest now is our overview of Antigua's recent victory at the World Trade Organization (WTO), which includes a summary by Antigua's lead counsel, Mark Mendel, who sets out clearly the implications of the Appellate Body's Report on the future of U.S. gaming law. |
Legal@pokerpulse.com
Tracking Internet gambling law worldwide until we fold.
| Quote: | | Note: We welcome visitors' questions as well as replies from lawyers, which we will happily publish at this forum. Those visitors who are considering entry into the business of Internet gambling are well advised to seek legal counsel before proceeding. To assist our visitors in acquiring appropriate expertise, we would be pleased to hear from practitioners seeking Internet gaming clients. Happily, a quick trawl at Google Feb. 23/05 indicates that experts in this area are not in short supply. View our search results: here. |
Last edited by legal on Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:25 pm; edited 9 times in total |
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legal
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Our e-mail to Berwin Leighton:
| Quote: | From: legal@pokerpulse.com
To: betting@blplaw.com
Cc: legal@pokerpulse.com
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 2:04 PM
Subject: Betting and Gaming query from the BLP web site
Hello Berwin Leighton et al,
We've been inundated with questions lately by visitors for advice on how and where to start an Internet gambling site and we couldn't help notice your excellent articles and e-offer of legal services to potential operators. In fact, we say so and give you a link at our You Asked Us forum. Please let us know if this is not a good idea. If it's OK, could you tell us what information potential operators might prepare in advance of a meeting with you?
Many thanks,
Legal@pokerpulse.com
http://www.pokerpulse.com
Tracking Internet poker worldwide. |
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legal
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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BLP's speedy yet considered reply:
| Quote: | From: Hilary Stewart-Jones
To: 'legal@pokerpulse.com'
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 1:39 AM
Subject: RE: Betting and Gaming query from the BLP web site
How nice to hear from you, Pokerpulse! We are very happy to benefit from a link from your site and frequently refer investors etc go your site!
In terms of advising potential operators, set out below are the key issues:
1) What is the long term objective; will you be looking for funding or a float?
2) How and where will you set up ownership; this is primarily a tax issue because shareholders will pay dividends taxes and the company may have to pay corporation and gaming tax.
3) Who will you partner with? (software partners etc) Have you an established brand and do you want to build or acquire one? Will you have white label deal? We can help on all these.
4) Where will you get licensed? Choosing a jurisdiction for licensing partly depends on the answer to all the above. We advise on licensing in all offshore jurisdictions.
5) Where will you market; will you include the US market?
6) How will you process money; again, we can point you in the right direction.
7) Where will your people be located?
Hope this helps!
Kind regards.
Hilary
Berwin Leighton Paisner
Adelaide House
London Bridge
London EC4R 9HA
England
DX 92 London/Chancery Lane
t: +44 (0)20 7760 1000
f: +44 (0)20 7760 1111
http://www.blplaw.com
VAT registration number: GB 243 2449 76
A list of partners may be inspected at any of our offices. The partners are solicitors or registered foreign lawyers. Regulated by the Law Society. The law society's rules can be accessed at www.guide.lawsociety.org.uk. |
| Quote: | | Note: We were so impressed with her talk on the new Gambling Bill at the GIGSE 05 legal panel June 15/05, that we asked Hilary for access to her power-point presentation. Click here for her excellent overview. (Requires Microsoft PowerPoint Viewer software). |
A note of thanks:
| Quote: | From: legal@pokerpulse.com
To: Hilary Stewart-Jones
Cc: legal@pokerpulse.com
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: Betting and Gaming query from the BLP web site
Excellent! Brilliant! Thanks very much! We'll get that up right away, and we will think of you, vis-a-vis the library notifies us that we're next in the line for The Office Second Season.
Legal@pokerpulse.com
Tracking Internet poker and gaming law well beyond our reach. |
Note: There, we've done it. We've worked it in, the funniest thing we've seen in years.
The Office
The Complete Collection
DVD
Last edited by legal on Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:24 pm; edited 8 times in total |
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legal
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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Our e-mail to Joelson Wilson regarding their materials on the new Gambling Bill
...and the timely, thoughtful reply:
| Quote: | From: "Amanda Frayne" <AJF@joelsonwilson.com>
To: <legal@pokerpulse.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 8:01 AM
Subject: Gambling bill - the US factor
Dear Sirs:
Thank you very much for your positive comments regarding our recent article.
The Gambling Bill is silent with regard to accepting bets from the US. The new Gambling Commission would offer licences to companies/individuals that are based in the UK.
The government believes that it is not appropriate to prevent UK-based operators from providing remote gambling services to non-UK consumers. As such, it is reasonable to assume that if a US resident wanted to place a bet through a UK-licensed operator, then they would be able to do so. However, at the present time, the majority of UK operators, as I am sure you are aware, will not accept sports bets from US residents due to the fear of potential litigation arising from the US Wire Act. It is, at the moment, a matter of individual discretion on the part of an operator as to whether or not they accept bets from US residents. Indeed, under the current proposals, this seems likely to continue to be the case if the bill is passed.
All appropriately licensed operators based in the EEA will be permitted to advertise in Great Britain, and the Secretary of State will designate which other non-EEA jurisdictions might be "white-listed," thereby enabling their licensed operators to advertise, too, (such designation being linked to standards of regulation at each jurisdiction in question). As such, if remote gaming is at some point legalised in the US, it could in theory then be "white-listed" by the Secretary of State in the UK.
We would be happy to provide legal advice to any of your visitors who are interested in setting up an Internet gambling site. In this respect, we would be able to advise them on the following matters:
1. The regulatory framework in the UK,
2. The appropriate licences that would need to obtained in order to set up such a business,
3. Ongoing renewals of the above licence,
4. Corporate advice on the formulation of a company if so required, and
5. Any other commercial legal advice that is needed.
If you have any such enquiries, we would be grateful if in the first instance if they could e-mail us. This e-mail should contain the following information:
- Full contact details,
- Full company details if relevant,
- Full details of the type of gambling that is intended to be offered,
- Information regarding the location of any servers/random number generators/offices and
- Time scale for set up.
If you should require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards,
Amanda
Amanda Frayne
Trainee Solicitor
Joelson Wilson & Co.
PARTNERS - P Baglee S Cordell D Clifton S Davies P Chiappe
70 New Cavendish St.
London W1G 8AT
Tel: 020 7580 5721
Fax: 020 7580 2251
E-mail: ajf@joelsonwilson.com
You can visit our web site at: www.joelsonwilson.com. |
A word of thanks:
| Quote: | From: <legal@pokerpulse.com>
To: "Amanda Frayne" <AJF@joelsonwilson.com>
Cc: <legal@pokerpulse.com>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 8:51 AM
Subject: Gambling bill - the US factor
Hello Amanda,
Thank you very, very much for your kind, thoughtful and timely reply. We will post it right away. Please feel free to send us links to any new> gambling articles by your firm in the future. We trawl a variety of news sources but reporters often (here anyway) don't delve as deeply as counsel does into the issues.
Thanks again,
Legal@pokerpulse.com
http://www.pokerpulse.com
Tracking Internet poker worldwide.
P.S. Congratulations on your trainee post. If it's anything there like it is here in securing such a position, you have overcome no small obstacle and we doff our caps. Well done. |
Note: For more on European Union membership, click here. |
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legal
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:47 am Post subject: |
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How do I locate counsel in Jacksonville, Florida?
| Quote: | To: Legal@pokerpulse.com
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 7:49 AM
Subject: Beginning a gaming site
I have a group of investors very interested in starting up a site. We are located in Jacksonville, Florida. Any ideas on counsel? Thank you for your time. |
Our reply:
| Quote: | From: legal@pokerpulse.com
Cc: legal@pokerpulse.com
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 2:33 PM
Subject: Beginning a gaming site
Hello,
Have a look at the messages we received from two law firms in the UK recently at our You Asked Us for planning tips and a snapshot of information legal counsel will require in order to assist you. Happily, both firms appear very Internet-friendly and welcome international e-mail inquiries.
However, if you want advice closer to home, contact the Florida Bar Association, which provides a list of the rules regulating the Florida bar as well as Lawyer Referral Services. The contact info for Jacksonville is as follows:
| Quote: | Lawyer Referral Services
Jacksonville Bar Association
(Baker, Clay, Duval, Nassau)
1301 Riverplace Blvd., Suite 730
Jacksonville, FL 32207
904/399-5780. |
Because of the international nature of e-gaming, you might wish to consult an attorney with international law certification. See international certification rules and requirements, although we noticed when Googled the terms, 'gaming attorneys Jacksonville,' our more than 185,000 hits included lawyers with varied practices. The good news is Rule 8-1.1, which states:
| Quote: | | Every citizen of the state should have access to the legal system. A person's access to the legal system is enhanced by the assistance of a qualified lawyer. Citizens often encounter difficulty in identifying and locating lawyers who are willing and qualified to consult with them about their legal needs. To this end bona fide not-for-profit state and local bar associations are uniquely qualified to provide lawyer referral services under supervision by The Florida Bar for the benefit of the public. It is the policy of The Florida Bar to support the establishment of local lawyer referral services and to encourage those services to: (a) make legal services readily available to the general public through a referral method that considers the client's financial circumstances, spoken language, geographical convenience, and the type and complexity of the client's legal problem; (b) provide information about lawyers and the availability of legal services that will aid in the selection of a lawyer; (c) inform the public when and where to seek legal services and provide an initial determination of whether those services are necessary or advisable; and (d) provide referral to consumer, government, and other agencies when the individual's best interests so dictate. |
We're pleased you're considering legal advice before launching your new site. U.S. gaming law is especially thorny and uncertain lately following Antigua's victory at the World Trade Organization.
Hope this helps. Please let us know how you're doing.
Best of luck,
Legal@pokerpulse.com |
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legal
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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How do I locate counsel in Toronto, Canada?
| Quote: | From: Fred Rashers
To: Legal@pokerpulse.com
Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 10:48 AM
Subject: Internet Gambling Law Firms
First off I would like to say thank you for providing such a wealth of information about starting an Internet gambling website. Your efforts are very much appreciated.
I've read just about everything I could in your legal section and found it very useful. My company is interested in starting an online gambling website and were hoping you could help us find an Internet gambling lawyer a little closer to home than Berwin, Leighton, Paisner. We are located in Windsor, Ontario Canada so anything between us and Ottawa would be excellent. Even Michigan would be very close by. Also, Toronto would be the preferred location because we have people located in the area.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to help other people. Keep up the good work.
Thanks,
Fred |
Our reply:
| Quote: | From: legal@pokerpulse.com
To: Fred Rashers
Cc: legal@pokerpulse.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 5:24 PM
Subject: Internet Gambling Law Firms
Hello Fred,
Sorry we took so long responding - especially after such high praise. Happily, when we asked our contacts at Berwin Paisner who they work with in Canada, they sent us the contact information for a firm that has produced some terrific articles on Canadian gaming law, two of which we provide links for at our Canadian Gaming Law forum:
Elkind, Lipton & Jacobs, LLP
One Queen Street East, Suite 1900
Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5C 2W6
Tel: +1 416 367 0871
Fax: + 1 416 367 9388
E-mail: mdliptonqc@aol.com <mailto:mdliptonqc@aol.com>
<http://www.eljlaw.com>
Mr. Lipton also gave a brief seminar at the last GIGSE conference in Montreal, which we found most illuminating. We've just added a link to a paper he co-authored on Canada's GATS commitments, which differ from those of the U.S. See our Caribbean Forum for more on Antigua's victory at the World Trade Organization (WTO).
We also have links to articles by C. Ian Kyer of the Toronto firm, Fasken Martineau. He appeared on ROB TV last fall along with PokerPulse founder Dennis Boyko to discuss I-gaming legal issues in Canada. You may reach him at:
Toronto Dominion Bank Tower
Toronto-Dominion Centre
Box 20, Suite 4200
66 Wellington Street West
Toronto, ON M5K 1N6
Tel: 416 366 8381
Fax: 416 364 7813
Toll Free: 1-800-268-8424
info@tor.fasken.com
If you prefer, you may also inquire at the Law Society of Upper Canada's Lawyer Referral Service. Ontario allows certification for what are considered specialists in certain fields of law there. You may wish to inquire whether there is a category for Internet gaming law because of it's international reach. You'll want someone who is familiar with the WTO decision on cross-border betting between the U.S. and Antigua and with U.S. gaming law generally and how it might affect your operation.
Hope this helps. Best of luck. Please let us know when your site is up.
Regards,
Legal@pokerpulse.com |
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legal
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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Poker room start-up needs help finding New York attorney:
| Quote: | From: Bella O'Toole
To: Legal@pokerpulse.com
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 6:10 PM
Subject: Starting an Internet Gaming Site
Greetings,
First off, thank you kindly for all the information on your website, it's extremely helpful. I had a couple quick questions for you. A group of individuals and I are working to put together an Internet poker room, and I was wondering if you have any recommendations for legal counsel in the general NY area?
Also, I was wondering if you could clear up a point for us. If we are using a white label solution initially, does our company need to be based offshore, say, in Gibraltar? If yes, do you have any information on the legalities of raising capital in the US, say by a private placement?
Thanks for any info,
Bella |
Our reply:
From: legal
To: Bella O'Toole
Cc: legal@pokerpulse.com
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: Starting an Internet Gaming Site
Hello Bella,
Thanks for the kind words. Locate a lawyer in New York by contacting Lawyer Referrals at the New York City Bar Association. You would be well advised to seek counsel with experience in international trade law, which increasingly governs commerce both abroad and at home. As you know, the U.S. is currently struggling with the domestic effect of Antigua's victory at the World Trade Organization (WTO), a decision that has not elicited much enthusiasm in Washington, to say the least. Here are the top three paragraphs of Analysis of Goodlatte's HR 4777 - The Internet Gambling Prohibition Act by Bradley Vallerius at Interactive Gaming News Feb. 23/06, which describe the latest American effort to ban Internet gambling:
| Quote: | On paper, Rep. Goodlatte (R-VA)'s HR 4777-- The Internet Gambling Prohibition Act, certainly accomplishes what it sets out to do, which is outlaw most forms of remote gambling. However, for years the Department of Justice has worked under the assumption that remote gambling is already illegal, and operators targeting Americans have therefore already acted accordingly by moving offshore out of reach from American authorities. Although there are some provisions in HR 4777 that could indeed pose problems for the online gambling industry in North America, it appears that they might not do much more harm than cause some businesses to adapt.
The first eight-pages of Goodlatte's 16-page piece of legislation would amend Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 1081, which is not actually the Wire Act but is a section which provides the definition for five different gambling-related terms that appear in other sections of the code that deal with gambling. Those terms include 'gambling ship', 'gambling establishment', 'vessel', 'American vessel', and 'wire communication facility.'
Although the first four terms would remain unchanged, the term 'wire communication facility' would be adjusted to read as 'communication facility," and the definition would be altered to address new remote forms of technology that were previously not addressed. |
We will also be posting Antigua's reaction to these initiatives at our Caribbean Forum. Please check back soon for updates as we begin our countdown to April 3, the deadline set for U.S. compliance with the panel ruling to bring three federal laws affecting Internet gambling in line with its trade obligations.
Because of this uncertainty, we wouldn't care to speculate on your second question. Bring it instead to the attorney with whom you decide to contract.
Thanks very much for writing. Best of luck with your poker room and please let us know how you're doing.
Legal@pokerpulse.com. |
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